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	<title>Comments for Ph.D. Octopus</title>
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	<description>Politics, media, music, capitalism, scholarship, and ephemera since 2010</description>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Tony Waters</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Waters]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 00:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Education and the pursuit of knowledge is as old as Socrates--the analogy to the rust belt in 1985 just doesn&#039;t work with scholarship. Hemlock may be a problem for academics, but thinking and scholarship is only imprecisely analogous to industrial cycles.  I really like Max Weber&#039;s 1917 essay &quot;Science as Vocation&quot; because it highlights the tensions that are always found in the academic life.  But like the naysayers of today, he got it wrong when he implied that the scholarly life would disappear under the oppressive weight of the gloomy tenured professors who precede us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Education and the pursuit of knowledge is as old as Socrates&#8211;the analogy to the rust belt in 1985 just doesn&#8217;t work with scholarship. Hemlock may be a problem for academics, but thinking and scholarship is only imprecisely analogous to industrial cycles.  I really like Max Weber&#8217;s 1917 essay &#8220;Science as Vocation&#8221; because it highlights the tensions that are always found in the academic life.  But like the naysayers of today, he got it wrong when he implied that the scholarly life would disappear under the oppressive weight of the gloomy tenured professors who precede us.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Kara</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3870</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 23:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[so sad but true]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so sad but true</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Debbie Goldgaber</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debbie Goldgaber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 21:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the industrial &quot;age&quot; &quot;ended&quot;--if it ever ended-- in america when industries left for more hospitable environments (i.e. less regulation, low pay).  This was not written into the nature of things as your spooky passive voice suggests.  It is the results of institutions and decisions that make these sorts of things possible and profitable--decisions aided and abetted precisely by selling the view that these sorts of changes are written into the nature of things, inevitable natural &quot;causes&quot; and hence not anything that could be the subject of political action and contestation.  Politics begins with lost &quot;causes&quot; my dear liberal.  As far as your contention that it would be &quot;stupid&quot; going into industrial production in 1985 or now--it seems you are unaware that the united states remains the largest (or 2nd largest depending on recent estimates) &quot;industrial&quot; economy in the world.  That is to say, we produce, in factories and stuff, more than just about any country in the world (Financial Times has recently and disputably suggested that China has &quot;nosed ahead&quot; in 2011).  So I&#039;m not really sure who the stupid is here.  Finally, my dear liberal, I can attest that there are PLENTY of jobs in higher education--education is consistently a growth sector.  it is just that the jobs that are offered are consistently BAD jobs, jobs that pay *less* than working as an administrative assistant in the very department you teach at-- that is, what&#039;s available are adjunct positions.  WHY? What are the &quot;causes&quot; is it because the &quot;educational age&quot; was ending in the US? Perhaps it&#039;s because educational workers are protected by no unions.  This allows for endlessly interesting arrangements to exploit &quot;knowledge&quot; workers.  Universities--those bastions of liberalism-- are cashing in by paying instructors (arguably their raison d&#039;etre) nothing.  Trust me, I would know.  If they took the skyrocketing tuition and used just a bit of that to pay their teachers decently, there would be no &quot;crisis&quot; in higher education. This state of affairs is completely manufactured and supported by the cowardly complicity of &quot;liberal&quot; tenured professors who, like you, don&#039;t know how to think about the &quot;causes&quot; of our &quot;crisis.&quot;  There is no crisis, there are tons of jobs---they are just no comfortable middle-class making jobs.  As a parting note, it is well known that, historically speaking, the proletarization of the &quot;intellectuals&quot; is an auspicious sign for the emergence of genuinely leftist politics--a politics let us recall, that doesn&#039;t see any salient difference between liberals and neo-liberals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the industrial &#8220;age&#8221; &#8220;ended&#8221;&#8211;if it ever ended&#8211; in america when industries left for more hospitable environments (i.e. less regulation, low pay).  This was not written into the nature of things as your spooky passive voice suggests.  It is the results of institutions and decisions that make these sorts of things possible and profitable&#8211;decisions aided and abetted precisely by selling the view that these sorts of changes are written into the nature of things, inevitable natural &#8220;causes&#8221; and hence not anything that could be the subject of political action and contestation.  Politics begins with lost &#8220;causes&#8221; my dear liberal.  As far as your contention that it would be &#8220;stupid&#8221; going into industrial production in 1985 or now&#8211;it seems you are unaware that the united states remains the largest (or 2nd largest depending on recent estimates) &#8220;industrial&#8221; economy in the world.  That is to say, we produce, in factories and stuff, more than just about any country in the world (Financial Times has recently and disputably suggested that China has &#8220;nosed ahead&#8221; in 2011).  So I&#8217;m not really sure who the stupid is here.  Finally, my dear liberal, I can attest that there are PLENTY of jobs in higher education&#8211;education is consistently a growth sector.  it is just that the jobs that are offered are consistently BAD jobs, jobs that pay *less* than working as an administrative assistant in the very department you teach at&#8211; that is, what&#8217;s available are adjunct positions.  WHY? What are the &#8220;causes&#8221; is it because the &#8220;educational age&#8221; was ending in the US? Perhaps it&#8217;s because educational workers are protected by no unions.  This allows for endlessly interesting arrangements to exploit &#8220;knowledge&#8221; workers.  Universities&#8211;those bastions of liberalism&#8211; are cashing in by paying instructors (arguably their raison d&#8217;etre) nothing.  Trust me, I would know.  If they took the skyrocketing tuition and used just a bit of that to pay their teachers decently, there would be no &#8220;crisis&#8221; in higher education. This state of affairs is completely manufactured and supported by the cowardly complicity of &#8220;liberal&#8221; tenured professors who, like you, don&#8217;t know how to think about the &#8220;causes&#8221; of our &#8220;crisis.&#8221;  There is no crisis, there are tons of jobs&#8212;they are just no comfortable middle-class making jobs.  As a parting note, it is well known that, historically speaking, the proletarization of the &#8220;intellectuals&#8221; is an auspicious sign for the emergence of genuinely leftist politics&#8211;a politics let us recall, that doesn&#8217;t see any salient difference between liberals and neo-liberals.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Tea Leaves and Dog Ears</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tea Leaves and Dog Ears]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 18:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I have to agree with this. When my professors have encouraged or discouraged me, they have always known where to lay the blame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I have to agree with this. When my professors have encouraged or discouraged me, they have always known where to lay the blame.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Tea Leaves and Dog Ears</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tea Leaves and Dog Ears]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 18:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t quite follow this statement. Who are these liberals who don&#039;t care demand more money?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite follow this statement. Who are these liberals who don&#8217;t care demand more money?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 13:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As another tenured professor who&#039;s been known to dispense job market advice on the interwebs, I really appreciate this rant.  

I HATE the don&#039;t go to grad school essays, which generally appear to be from people who are also otherwise bitter about their jobs or their lives.  And they&#039;re the privileged ones.  So there&#039;s a tone of self-service and self-pity that is a little sickening coming from those quarters.  Any tenured prof who isn&#039;t grateful for his or her privileges is frankly deluded.

That said, and contrary to my colleague above, every year I talk with PhD applicants or admits who have never had anyone explain the job market to them or the politics of post-PhD employment.  Part of this is an effect of poor mentorship, which is more common than we want to admit.  

So I explain the situation to them, and say &quot;don&#039;t get a PhD if this isn&#039;t the thing you&#039;re most passionate about&quot; but I also tell them I love my job, grad school can be a valuable experience if you go into it with your eyes open and make good choices, whether or not the story ends with tenure (which is a messed up narrative anyway).  It is important to puncture that narrative because if you tell people only a certain percentage of them will wind up in TT positions, 100% of everyone will believe they&#039;re going to be in that group.

Honestly, the market wasn&#039;t so great in the late 90s when I was coming out.  We had the same conversations, just no blogosphere to circulate them.  It&#039;s gotten worse but it&#039;s a structural problem and we should be addressing it that way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As another tenured professor who&#8217;s been known to dispense job market advice on the interwebs, I really appreciate this rant.  </p>
<p>I HATE the don&#8217;t go to grad school essays, which generally appear to be from people who are also otherwise bitter about their jobs or their lives.  And they&#8217;re the privileged ones.  So there&#8217;s a tone of self-service and self-pity that is a little sickening coming from those quarters.  Any tenured prof who isn&#8217;t grateful for his or her privileges is frankly deluded.</p>
<p>That said, and contrary to my colleague above, every year I talk with PhD applicants or admits who have never had anyone explain the job market to them or the politics of post-PhD employment.  Part of this is an effect of poor mentorship, which is more common than we want to admit.  </p>
<p>So I explain the situation to them, and say &#8220;don&#8217;t get a PhD if this isn&#8217;t the thing you&#8217;re most passionate about&#8221; but I also tell them I love my job, grad school can be a valuable experience if you go into it with your eyes open and make good choices, whether or not the story ends with tenure (which is a messed up narrative anyway).  It is important to puncture that narrative because if you tell people only a certain percentage of them will wind up in TT positions, 100% of everyone will believe they&#8217;re going to be in that group.</p>
<p>Honestly, the market wasn&#8217;t so great in the late 90s when I was coming out.  We had the same conversations, just no blogosphere to circulate them.  It&#8217;s gotten worse but it&#8217;s a structural problem and we should be addressing it that way.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Emily</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3861</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 13:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reblogged this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://sensibilious.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/295/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;THE TASK&lt;/a&gt; and commented: 
THANK YOU. Of particular notice:

&quot;The problem with the “no one should go to grad school” articles are that they, unconsciously or not, shift the blame for the endemic joblessness onto the most vulnerable, those who are, or will soon be, unemployed. This is especially pernicious when these arguments come from tenured faculty who should be exactly the ones who have the greatest responsibility to try to fix the Academy. Implicitly, they accept conservative narratives about individual agency within capitalism. Rather than fight the real enemy (the corporate administrators, the Tea Party Governors, neoliberalism, etc…), they turn it into a moralistic argument about what some 22 year old should be doing.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reblogged this on <a href="http://sensibilious.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/295/" rel="nofollow">THE TASK</a> and commented:<br />
THANK YOU. Of particular notice:</p>
<p>&#8220;The problem with the “no one should go to grad school” articles are that they, unconsciously or not, shift the blame for the endemic joblessness onto the most vulnerable, those who are, or will soon be, unemployed. This is especially pernicious when these arguments come from tenured faculty who should be exactly the ones who have the greatest responsibility to try to fix the Academy. Implicitly, they accept conservative narratives about individual agency within capitalism. Rather than fight the real enemy (the corporate administrators, the Tea Party Governors, neoliberalism, etc…), they turn it into a moralistic argument about what some 22 year old should be doing.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by simply me</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[simply me]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 08:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Winger above got it right. Both sides (academia and students) are shifting the blame onto the other. In addition to revealing the critical data on placement rates, isn&#039;t it the case that academia would be better off forging stronger links with industry, to create a channel whereby there is a better &#039;guess&#039; / understanding as to the demand out in industry. By which measure they will know how many PhD programs to put out?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Winger above got it right. Both sides (academia and students) are shifting the blame onto the other. In addition to revealing the critical data on placement rates, isn&#8217;t it the case that academia would be better off forging stronger links with industry, to create a channel whereby there is a better &#8216;guess&#8217; / understanding as to the demand out in industry. By which measure they will know how many PhD programs to put out?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by G</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re telling people that, &quot;you might as well figure out a way to become your own boss doing something you love&quot; then you&#039;re living in the same neoliberal fantasy-world as our politicians.  The slow, inexorable march towards a full-unemployment economy started decades ago in the manufacturing sector and is now spreading to the service sector.  You see it everyday: the rise of online retailers, automated checkout at the grocery store, itunes university...  Hell, with recent advances in drone technology I have to wonder how long it will be until even the security guards are machines.  

So the question is how is someone supposed to start their own small business in this situation?  Let&#039;s leave aside the current capital strike and the notable unwillingness of banks to provide loans to small businesses.  What&#039;s a good business plan these days?  Automating someone&#039;s job.  Of course, once you&#039;ve automated that job, you&#039;ve also made yourself redundant so you have to bounce from contract to contract just hoping that someone more capitalized with more workers doesn&#039;t come along and take the ever dwindling supply of contracts from you.  

The problem is that, increasingly, there&#039;s no one left to buy anything.  We&#039;re moving towards a dystopian future where 1% of the population controls all of the resources and uses a giant military-prison-industrial complex to keep the other 99% at bay.  That one percent can only buy so much artisanal cheese, faberge eggs and $6,000 dresses...

This is why individual agency is a myth.  It&#039;s what happens when baby boomers (who have the dumb luck to be born into an unprecedented, broad-based economic boom) mistake their good fortune for gumption and human value.  Basically my response is: &#039;what, you did what you were told, went to college, took out a thirty-year mortgage and eventually ended up owning your own house and retiring so you could live off of social security? you&#039;re certainly tending towards the mean for your age and educational levels...&#039;  For those of us in our twenties, the stakes should be clear: unless we radically re-imagine our economic order we might as well curl up and die.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re telling people that, &#8220;you might as well figure out a way to become your own boss doing something you love&#8221; then you&#8217;re living in the same neoliberal fantasy-world as our politicians.  The slow, inexorable march towards a full-unemployment economy started decades ago in the manufacturing sector and is now spreading to the service sector.  You see it everyday: the rise of online retailers, automated checkout at the grocery store, itunes university&#8230;  Hell, with recent advances in drone technology I have to wonder how long it will be until even the security guards are machines.  </p>
<p>So the question is how is someone supposed to start their own small business in this situation?  Let&#8217;s leave aside the current capital strike and the notable unwillingness of banks to provide loans to small businesses.  What&#8217;s a good business plan these days?  Automating someone&#8217;s job.  Of course, once you&#8217;ve automated that job, you&#8217;ve also made yourself redundant so you have to bounce from contract to contract just hoping that someone more capitalized with more workers doesn&#8217;t come along and take the ever dwindling supply of contracts from you.  </p>
<p>The problem is that, increasingly, there&#8217;s no one left to buy anything.  We&#8217;re moving towards a dystopian future where 1% of the population controls all of the resources and uses a giant military-prison-industrial complex to keep the other 99% at bay.  That one percent can only buy so much artisanal cheese, faberge eggs and $6,000 dresses&#8230;</p>
<p>This is why individual agency is a myth.  It&#8217;s what happens when baby boomers (who have the dumb luck to be born into an unprecedented, broad-based economic boom) mistake their good fortune for gumption and human value.  Basically my response is: &#8216;what, you did what you were told, went to college, took out a thirty-year mortgage and eventually ended up owning your own house and retiring so you could live off of social security? you&#8217;re certainly tending towards the mean for your age and educational levels&#8230;&#8217;  For those of us in our twenties, the stakes should be clear: unless we radically re-imagine our economic order we might as well curl up and die.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Please&#8230; no more &#8220;Don&#8217;t Go to Grad School&#8221; Articles by Kimberly</title>
		<link>http://phdoctopus.com/2012/05/29/please-no-more-dont-go-to-grad-school-articles/#comment-3857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kimberly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 01:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phdoctopus.com/?p=6037#comment-3857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great rant. Do what you want.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great rant. Do what you want.</p>
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